Stephen: Oh, Canada edition of Around The Coin podcast. We had Flo Thévenin, cannot pronounce his last name properly, but he's based in Canada along with your boys Stephen Brent Sargeant and the host of this podcast. We talked about Blockchain North, which is the only Blockchain focused media company in Canada. We talked entrepreneurship.

We talked about all the different initiatives and what regulators and politicians are really saying about crypto industry and blockchain industry here in Canada. We talked about some of the business sectors including Bitcoin mining, including stablecoin regulation, as well as lobbying in Canada. This is a great conversation and for all those that want to get the lay of the land of the payments, Crypto and blockchain space in Canada.

This is an episode that you want to listen to. It's the true, North strong and free edition of Around The Coin podcast.

Stephen: This is your host Stephen Sargeant, Around The Coin podcast. We have a special edition, the True, North Strong and Free edition, the Canadian edition of the podcast where we have Flo. Flo, tell us a little bit about yourself and what do you do here in Canada?

Florent: Wow, always the hardest question. Tell us about yourself. You want to find that balance, right? Between providing useful information and not boasting too much or not going too long. But look, I'm Flo. I'm half French and half Dutch. I've been in Canada for 12 years. I define myself as a global citizen. I'm, you know, multilingual, lived in different parts of the world, which is how I landed in Canada 12 years ago.

And I would also say I'm someone with a lot of initiative and most recently an entrepreneur.

I have two businesses. One is called BlockFlo Digital, which is a specialized digital marketing and video production business catering to the crypto industry but also non crypto clients. And then I also, around the same time, created a company called Blockchain North, which, as you can read here, positions itself as Canada's first blockchain media.

And I know there's a word missing in that sentence before you say it. And that's because in French, you would say media, like as media company, you would say it on his own and I just think it sounds good. So I left it there. But, uh, anyway, you get the idea and that's who I am and super happy to be with you today.

Stephen: And let's talk about Blockchain North because I don't even think you position yourself. I think you are the first media agency that's focused strictly on blockchain in Canada, what was the type of void? What was the aha moment where you're like, Hey, why didn't anybody cover this? Or why didn't Coindesk or Blockworks kind of showcase this highlight?

Like, where did you find the need for, let me set up something that nobody else has successfully done in Canada, which many people look upon when they're bringing exchanges, but sometimes isn't the biggest market when it comes from a dollar bill point of view from some of these blockchain companies.

Florent: Yes, so true, so true. So first a clarification.

We are two businesses in one. So Blockchain North is really a media company. I would not call it an agency. I just want to be very clear. We're like a media company, YouTube, website, you know, social media, etc. We produce content. That's Blockchain North. BlockFlo Digital is what you could call an agency in the sense that we service clients with their Content creation, social media, copywriting, and even white paper writing, um, uh, as a service.

So, anyway, I mean, why? Well, you know, BlockFlo Digital was, was a natural continuation of what I did before. I set up a Canadian, uh, company in partnership with a, with an owner called thefutureeconomy.ca. And we produced a lot of content and did a lot of social media. And I always thought we should provide services to our clients.

So not just Our content and then trying to always chase sponsorship or advertising, but like we should service the clients because ultimately they want to grow their own channels more today than ever. So I set up a digital marketing company called BlockFlo Digital. And, uh, and, you know, went back to some of my old clients and connections and, and quite quickly managed to, to, to, to be profitable, basically, or at least break even.

And, um, and, and as I said, around the same time, I created Blockchain North. Why?

Because as I, you know, walked into my journey about, uh, about crypto and blockchain, I quickly realized that while Canada is a pioneer, uh, I wouldn't say we're the only one or that we're the leader, for sure not anymore, but we are.

But we certainly are a leader, you know, Ethereum, uh, the, the Bitcoin mining, uh, the ETFs, I mean, there's a lot of major innovations from Canada, so that's point one, but paradoxically, like in many other areas of the economy, as you well know, we're not that good at putting that forward, at, at, at promoting ourselves, at, at ensuring that we keep Talent, IP, and investment in Canada, as we're seeing, you know, and I won't point fingers, but in blockchain or in other industries.

So I thought, you know, and that's maybe point three, I thought, well, what do we need? And I realized as well that all the media content about Canada, for the most part, comes from abroad. It's usually like, uh, like you said, Blockworks or Coindesk, forward slash Canada, and then it's an article from like two months ago, and you're like, oh my god, so much happened since then, you know, so I thought we need someone, we need a sort of a media umbrella or a media institution, by that I mean not a YouTuber, those are doing a great job, by the way, and they usually have more followers, but, uh, an institution that takes it upon itself to, you know, tell the story on a day to day basis, spotlight our entrepreneurs, our communities, you know, talk about our, our ecosystem and the audience being Canada, primarily, of course, but also international audiences. So the first one, and I'll leave it at that, Canada, it's because the other problem we have in Canada is we're very insular in fact, uh, you know, I'm here in Quebec, people know very little about what's happening in Alberta. Unless it's really specific to their niche and vice versa. So we need to tell the Canadian story to Canadians, you know, tell them what's happening in their jurisdiction, in other jurisdiction, um, because it's important. And the second part is global...

Stephen: I want to interrupt you there before you even get into global audience. Yeah. What do you think about the Canadian media? Right. I, I found, and you know, I was on TV last year or the year before talking about FTX. I find the Canadian media only highlights blockchain or crypto when there's a negative sign, whether that's pig butchering scams, you know, an Ontario man loses his life savings at out, Or, you know, a crypto exchange here in Canada goes belly up.

What have you found from the traditional media? Have they been like more reaching out to you or, you know, have you seen them covering these major stories or is it kind of like you're out that it feels like sometimes on these grassroots events, it's just you there kind of, you know, speaking on behalf or listening on behalf of the media.

Florent: Usually the latter. Rarely have we come across other media. We have come across The Logic, for example, here and there. We've come across BetaKit, but most, uh, you know, events in Canada, especially, you know, other than, let's say, the major one like Futurist, have virtually no media. But to be fair, this is, you know, we cater to non crypto clients, and that's also true You know, I have a client in the bioeconomy, we have another one in DEI, um, you know, those events don't have media presence, uh, simply because media companies don't have journalists anymore, you know, they've laid off everyone.

So, I mean, opportunistically, for our digital marketing company, That's an, that's an opportunity. Um, but, uh, what, and it's funny, you asked if someone has ever reached out to us. Not so much. However, we did have a, maybe somewhat random conversation with someone from Radio Canada at Futurist last year, and he's been poking us here and there, like, Hey, you should come to our offices.

We should talk. Maybe we could co brand some content or I'm totally open to it. And to your initial point, are they only negative? I think that's a bit of a, um, That's a bit of what we like to say in the crypto industry, right? We're being a bit defensive, I think. The reality is, I think, they just don't care that much about crypto, so we don't get a lot of coverage.

But I have seen some decent pieces of content. One of them, I think it's Andrew Chang at the CBC. He has a show called About That, and I've seen at least two of his shows on crypto, and I thought they were fairly balanced. Sure, they finish on a cautionary note, be careful, it's risky. You should be careful, and it is risky.

So, um, I actually wouldn't be too, too hard on them. I just think that we need our own industry to have its own media company. Like you would have in the energy sector or in agriculture, you know.

Stephen: I love it. And since you're talking about different sectors, like DEI or, you know, I think you said biochemical, are there similarities to those industries compared to blockchain?

Are those industries also very like uncommon to, you know, the larger industries like DEI sound like it had its way for two or three years. It's kind of quieted down, but maybe you see a different story behind the scenes. What are your thoughts about some of these other industries?

Florent: DEI is really intricate and, um, and I, I frankly, I'm not that familiar with it, so I'm going to choose the, the other, uh, client I mentioned who's in the bioeconomy space, uh, they have a conference, yearly conference, pretty much the biggest one in Canada, it's in Ottawa, so it has a lot to do with the industry wanting to engage government, and in that sense, I would say that blockchain is not unique at all, uh, the bioeconomy industry, I mean, everything seems to be about sustainability these days, about, you know, finding nature based solutions to problems like, you know, fuel or materials.

So I think, um, I think, um, uh, you know, what, where they are trying to be more recognized, seeking something like maybe a national strategy, um, you know, and, and of course, subsidies or funding. Uh, I think that's blockchain industry is trying to do now. Uh, I am personally a big advocate. I think that The national AI strategy run by CIFAR, uh, has been fairly successful.

I'm not an expert, but the very fact that we have so much funding and there's also the, of course, the super clusters, uh, now they're called the, uh, innovation clusters. Yeah. I'd like to maybe five or 10 years down the line being realistic here. I'd like to see a blockchain national strategy, maybe a bit before that, but then also a cluster, like a funded cluster by the government, because I think it's a.

It's going to be a major industry and, and we are in a country where we still years and maybe even decades after talking about it, have to become more knowledge based, right? We're not, we, we, there's nothing wrong with our resources. They're, they're a blessing. We're super lucky. Those industries are digitizing.

So, you know, we need to be tech leaders because, you know, tech is everywhere. And otherwise we're just going to stay the same. You know, the, the ugly little brother of, uh, of the United States forever, you know, and we have so many advantages, you know, um, if, if the government can maybe get out of the way a little bit, I'd say.

Stephen: Awesome. What are some of the conversations you talked about the government? What are the, some of the maybe conversations or challenges? You know, you've had interviews with some of the, you know, representatives of some of the biggest crypto exchanges both here in Canada and they have an international presence.

What are the things that they're talking about, uh, in the interviews you're hosting with them or even like behind the scenes at some of the conferences?

Florent: Well, it'll be hard to summarize or to, you know, I want to be careful not to misrepresent what they're saying, but I would say my personal impression.

So through my own filters, you know, and as you said, having attended a lot of events and done a lot of interviews, basically the, the problems are pretty well known, I would say. And again, they probably are the same as in other industries. I would say number one, Canada is a big, Very spread out country. And, uh, and unfortunately, you know, our legislations, our regulations are usually two tiers, there's federal and then there's provincial.

So as you know, in the crypto space, uh, you know, crypto is regulated provincially, and so that is problem number one, I think, for any company that comes to Canada, you now have to get a license in at least three or four provinces to Because obviously you're not necessarily going to all 13. Um, but that's, that's, that's a big, big, big challenge.

And I would say competitive disadvantages.

Stephen: Do you see a lot of companies coming from the United States that have to do something similar, but with like 52 states? Do you see them kind of finding their way to Canada because they've already gone through that process of going state by state to get licensed and registered?

Do you find them kind of entering the Canadian space a little bit more than, let's say, international companies from the UK or Dubai or other places? Oh, I

Florent: mean, for sure, most companies in the crypto space, most foreign investors, in fact, across the economy, are American, I would say, uh, and in crypto, I'm not really aware of many, I actually, I know a French one in Quebec, Exayon, part of, uh, the National Energy Company, they're a really interesting company, um, that joined recently, but I'm not aware of that many non US foreign companies in Canada.

So anyway, I mean, I would say that that's point number one. Um, point number two, I would say, as in terms of challenges, um, I mean, there's a discrepancy between what I've heard the government is doing behind the scenes. Uh, we recently interviewed Joel Lightbound, Liberal MP, famously did this big outing, as I'm calling it, uh, in Parliament, where he, he did a very, very, um, positive, you know, talk about Bitcoin, which I mean, for Liberal MPs.

You know, it's pretty dangerous. Uh, and, and he was recently as well at the Digital Asset Business Conference, uh, in Ottawa. And, um, and he's basically saying that the liberals are not actually anti crypto and they're actually pretty well informed and they're having conversations with various lobbyists and industry leaders.

But, and now I'm, I'm extrapolating a bit on what he, the politician said. Is, you know, of course, there's politics, you know, there's, there's game theory there and they can't, you know, you know, it's become a wedge issue basically, right, between the two parties. And interestingly, Pierre Poiliev doesn't talk about crypto either, uh, anymore.

So, there is what they really do, what they know, and there is what they say, you know. I was at another event, uh, I think a week and a half ago, organized by the CBC, a forum, um, and they had three members of the, uh, Quebec financial regulators there. And not only did they do a panel and were super knowledgeable and I think impressed everyone in the room, but they stayed all day and they asked questions on other panels.

So they were really interested. And that I think is, is good news. Um, so yeah, I w I would say these are two. Pretty big ones there, uh, you know, the, the size and the complexity of Canada and then the fact that unfortunately we don't get a lot of, uh, public support for our industry.

Stephen: And the Liberals are battling their own battles right now, right? Election year, they're struggling to kind of win over Canada. Justin Trudeau's probably, and this would be just seeing there, I'm not really into politics, but overall, people don't have overall a lot of nice things to say about Justin Trudeau.

Florent: It was the same for Harper 10 years ago, right?

Stephen: For the Liberals, I feel, even my parents, I feel like a lot of people like the Liberals because that's why they're in the country in the first place is because of Pierre Trudeau, who was the Prime Minister a long time ago.

He helped a lot of now Canadians get out of the country. So I feel a lot of, especially immigrant parents still vote for the Liberal Party because if, if it weren't for them, they wouldn't be, you know, kind of benefiting from the fruits of Canada.

Florent: But that's interesting. I think we're thin when, when, when inflation is rampant, when things are, you know, the, the immigrant journey is, is very complex in Canada.

I mean, I was very fortunate. Uh, and I frankly didn't even plan to stay here initially, but if you're coming here and you need a house right away and you need a job in a specific industry and, and the paperwork is a headache. I think, uh, Yeah, those kind of things are, are just really problematic and we really need to get Canada, you know, better organized, more competitive and less, less spendy, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're extremely indebted and more and more so every day, you know.

Stephen: You know, we talked about immigrants, you did a video series, interview series as part of Blockchain North's initiative around immigration and immigrants in blockchain. Talk to me about the series, talk to me about some of the successes, some of the interviewees had, and maybe some of the challenges that you may have already kind of spoke about already.

Florent: Yeah, well look, first of all, I'm an immigrant myself, I came from France, um, and I, I'm half Dutch, so arrived in Canada 12 years ago, and so I'm a little bit familiar on a personal level, and I haven't experienced, let's say, um, you know, financial or, or, or, or social challenges, uh, or actually social, maybe I have in the sense that, you know, you don't, you're not accepted in a country, you know, after a year or two, I mean, it, you know, acceptance takes time.

You kind of need to earn it is what I'm saying, you know, so I, I struggled a little bit with that, but enough about me. Um, yeah, the series, Immigrants Lead Canadian Blockchain, um, pretty unique project, the biggest we did so far, which is interesting because the topic is. Again, a little bit unique. Uh, we're not talking about crypto regulation or, or tokens or, you know, we're talking about the immigrant journey.

Uh, we featured eight well known Canadian, uh, blockchain leaders. Um, for example, Kunal Basin from, uh, KPMG, the first, uh, the first, uh, I think it's the first auditing firm in the world to put Bitcoin and Ethereum on its balance sheet. Um, and he's the, he's the head there for blockchain. Uh, we interviewed, um, numerous others.

Suzanne, who you know, Suzanne Ismaili from TCAE. Um, but anyway, the, the common thread there was, um, and again, it's not specific to crypto, but it's just that immigrants who come to Canada, whether, especially if they come later in life, but perhaps also if they come. You know, with their parents, uh, as, as children, uh, inevitably experienced challenges.

I mean, the language. The environment, you don't have friends, you know, you don't maybe understand the culture, uh, you know, I struggled with hockey, for example, and I still, I'm not at all a fan of hockey, but the fact that everyone always talks about hockey, I just kind of felt a bit marginalized, you know, um, but anyway, so, so, what, what, you know, what's important here is that All these leaders that we interviewed are leaders, are successful, you know, you can measure it as you like, but they are having an impact, they are recognized by their peers, um, and, and they actually, when you ask them, they actually trace a lot of their strength, a lot of their, uh, skills to their journey, to the fact that it wasn't easy, right?

And there's a lot of theory right now from many psychologists around the world that hardship, especially in your younger age. Is actually a good thing, you know, because it toughens you basically, you know, and prepares you for, for, for how difficult starting a business is, for example, you know, um, so, so that's definitely a part of it.

And the other point I would make is that. You know, blockchain is inherently a global industry. And so these people came to Canada, they could have gone anywhere else. They might've done the same thing, you know, and of course there's an element of coincidence, but, um, but, but they are definitely global thinkers, you know, and they don't limit their, their views, their, their initiatives to Canada.

And that's something that I think all Canadians should, uh, take a, take a page from, uh, and frankly, me included. I mean, I, I sometimes think, well, why am I limiting my business to Canada? I mean, yes, we are a country of 40 million, G8, rich country, of course. Um, but like you, you know, if you're providing some kind of a service.

In creation, I mean, why wouldn't you be able to offer the same service to people in the US, in Europe, um, notwithstanding the language, of course. So, anyway, that was an interesting point for me.

Stephen: And I think that's an interesting point you just made, is because, okay, you're focused more on, you know, Canada, Blockchain North.

But when people come to Canada, when people are looking at investing in Canada, the first thing they want to get an idea about is like, what's the lay of the land here? Who should I speak to? Without a kind of national media hub for information and content, how would you kind of get an idea of what you're getting into?

And like, you save them so much time from having all these individual conversations. You put all the content in one place. You have a newsletter, which I want to talk about because, you know, everyone looks at a newsletter. They think, okay, we got 10, 000 people signed up. We're going to make millions of dollars and sell, like, all these other newsletters in AI and business.

Tell me how difficult it is to build a newsletter, uh, to, you know, consistently come up with creative ideas to get people to open up, uh, that email once they get it. Talk to me about the challenges and the successes of the newsletter.

Florent: Well, I mean, the newsletter is only four months old. So first, first off, you know, I know that these things, and you know that too, take time.

You know, building an audience takes time. We recently reached 3000 followers on LinkedIn. It's not 300,000 followers, but we started at zero just two years ago. So when we reached 3000 and, and there's a ton of leaders in our audience, you know, it's the who's who of the Canadian space. Why? Because we interview them.

So we interview them, they gave us a follow, and now they're starting to engage with us. Like this morning, every day, you know, so we're not necessarily about high volume numbers. We're about, you know, quality engagement. So, um, so, but even that takes time, of course. So, that's the first point I'd make.

Secondly, um, the newsletter is, uh, is a success to me in the sense that it exists, that it's been running smoothly. It's, it's weekly, so four months is, uh, something like 16 or 18, uh, newsletters already. It takes quite a bit of time. It takes almost a day, I would say, as a team. Uh, it's, it's, I would add the hours of everyone, so maybe it's eight hours of work collectively.

Um, but it exists and it matters because I, to the best of my knowledge, have not seen A Canadian blockchain focused newsletter. Do we only talk about Canada? No, of course not. Of course, when Trump, you know, uh, this week, uh, you know, starts becoming this new champion for, for crypto, of course, we're going to mention that, um, the ETF, uh, the, the Ethereum ETF, of course, we're going to talk about that.

Anything major around the world will be in the newsletter. However. We also aggregate Canadian news, and luckily there are news, you know, there is news every, every week, pretty much. Um, we, of course, interview leaders, so our interviews are in the newsletter. They're mostly with Canadian leaders. Um, thirdly, we have an event listing.

Now, there aren't a ton of significant crypto events in Canada, so, you know, maybe we should, like, update a little bit more often and add smaller events too. We'll work on that. But anyway, you have that listing. in our newsletter every week. So if you just want to stay up to date, that's a good place to look.

And then we also aggregate jobs, all Canadian jobs in the industry. So I think that's, that's its uniqueness. Um, am I where I want to be with followers? Of course not, but I don't think I ever will. So...

Stephen: You never, you never get to where you want to be with followers. And the, you know, my belief is that the winners are watching.

And I think that job thing is as the market heats up, it's sometimes a lot of those jobs aren't posted on places like LinkedIn and Indeed and all these other places. It's like you having that connection when someone says, Hey, like, you know, we're hiring for this position. I'll send you the, you know, the job description once we have it, like that unique concept I think you have of being so close to the action.

But let me take you back.

Speaking about the immigrants journey, just the journey, you know, a few years ago, we were both sitting in Alberta. I never heard of you. You never heard of me. Uh, we had these little small setups and like two years later, you have really outdone yourself interviewing some of the best in the industry.

Talk to me about that, you know, that little desk that you had at the Canadian Blockchain Consortium event to now where you're renting out booths at the biggest blockchain conferences, you're traveling the world. Talk to me about that transition because that happened really, really fast and how challenging was it to get the credibility and the trustworthiness of some of the biggest industry players?

Florent: Wow, that's such a great question, and I know that the very process of answering it will be useful, so I'll have to watch my answer again and give it more thought after this. And by the way, from what I understand, and I think you mentioned this before, but your parents were the new Canadians, right? And you were born in Canada, is that correct?

Oh yeah, exactly. Yeah, so you could have been in that Immigrants Lead Canadian blockchain. Some of them were second generation Canadians, uh, or first generation, I always get confused. But anyway, born in Canada, but the immigrant journey is part of their family. So yeah, you and I share this in, in, in common.

Um, yeah, I mean, I, you know, I don't really know. One of the problems when you're, when you're building a startup, let alone two, um, is, is you don't have. That much time to think. I mean, you're pretty much in action mode. I'm also like that as an individual. Not that I don't think, but I'm just more like action, action, action.

Go, go, go, go, go. Let's do it. You know, and, and, and I think one of the good things with that is that I'm not afraid to fail. You know, we try to do, as I mentioned to you offline, um, uh, uh, sort of a trade mission to, uh, to Paris Blockchain Week. I'm born and raised in Paris. So obviously that was a passion project.

We didn't get the funding we needed. We didn't do it. It was a bit tough, but move on, you know, and we're going to try again next year, by the way. So if anybody wants to join, get in touch. Um, so, you know, how do we build the credibility? Um, take time. Uh, you know, you can't do it in one month or two months. I mean, it took us maybe two, two and a half years to get to where we are.

We're still really small. But, uh, yeah, you're right. We do have a certain degree of recognition. It's probably what I'm the proudest of, by the way, because one of the things I've done several times in my life now, I'm 46 since Monday, um, is penetrate a market, thank you, penetrate a market, a country or an industry, uh, where I know no one, you know, I mentioned this to you before, but I've done five years of global traveling, uh, Kind of as a media, I don't know, a pirate, you could say, um, spend time in Southeast Asia, Middle East, Africa.

And this is how I got to Canada, uh, to produce these investment reports. And so, um, yeah, it's, it's hard. Uh, first of all, I think you have to be really curious. Uh, you have to care, genuinely. Uh, I certainly don't have all the answers, still don't, uh, very much work in progress. But I think people can feel that, they can feel that I care, they can feel that I, I want to be a part of this community, I want to try to represent it on my scale, and on my level, um, or in my way, I mean, so, um, and, okay, I can't, I'd be remiss not mentioning my team, I mean, I'm not doing all of this alone, you know, I have a team of, uh, we're now four, we will be five by Monday, um, and so that's super exciting, it's, it's, the hardest part, And the most rewarding part, the team.

Uh, I have two fantastic directors who work with me. One is really the blockchain. Expert and consultant. And the other one is the, the content and the production expert. Uh, yeah, those two, I mean, they're completely, uh, uh, you know, how can I say, I don't want to say irreplaceable because no one is, and one day I'll probably be replaced, uh, hopefully, actually, but, um, but they're indispensable right now, at least.

And, and, and so having a strong team surrounding yourself with the right people and, uh, and the last thing I would say is showing up, you know, like you pointed out. We travel quite a bit, not really globally yet, but we do canvas Canada. I was just in Toronto back in two weeks, back for Futurist, hopefully in Calgary in July.

Um, was in Ottawa a month ago. So yeah, we, we, we show up and sometimes we We do it at a loss, you know, um, but we do it because we know that longer term people seeing us again and again and again and again, it, it creates trust, I suppose, you know, so that's what I'd say.

Stephen: I think from the outsider looking in and just, you know, to talk, because we have a lot of entrepreneurs that watch a lot of business people, intent is a big thing.

Because I think if you're like, hey, I'm going to capture the Canadian market. I'm going to ball this all up. I'm going to attack from this sector and this vector and talk to this person. What I noticed about you is your intent to really get the whole community involved. Not just the key players, not just the people that might, you know, invest or sponsor.

I remember seeing you at that conference and you wanted to speak to everyone and get their opinions and and listen and talk. I think that's a key thing when building a business. I think people attack it very transactionally. And people can almost feel like, oh, this person is just talking to me, so they can get over here to talk to that person.

And they can't wait to get from in front of me to get to that person, where you're just like, hey, I just want to talk to everybody. And I think that almost attracted some of the top people. As well as like, you have great business acumen, great, you know, business characteristics, and just a joy to talk to.

But I think I noticed a tent a lot. You see a lot of companies, organizations, Crypto exchanges, they look at Canada as almost like this prey, like I'm going to come in there, eat as much as I can, and then like leave. And whereas you're trying to really build the community from the inside out. So I think for those that don't Look..

Florent: I'm married to, I'm married to a Canadian. I've been here 12 years. I have some of my best friends in the country, so I'm not going anywhere. Um, but I mean, you know, are we, are we sometimes, I mean, is the transactional factor top of mind? Of course it is. We're a startup. And as I like to say, we eat what we kill. We don't have any funders. If we don't sell this month, next month, the following month, we're out.

So, or I have to let go people, which is the worst thing. Uh, luckily I haven't had to do that so far. But, um, um, yeah, I agree with you.

And you're putting your finger actually on a key strategy for Blockchain North in the coming years, which is, you know, now that we have really connected with that top echelon, which was still very important for us, Including because there are potential sponsors, but simply because they're, you know, the biggest names, they're the leaders.

I mean, it's nice to align with them. The next round for us right now is indeed to get into the hackathons, to get into the local communities. You know, there are some from Vancouver to Halifax, and we want to go there and record their events. Talk to the, to the students, to the developers, to the young entrepreneurs and not just the big CEOs.

So you're, you're absolutely right where I wouldn't say we're scoring like a 10 out of 10 on that yet. Intentionally. We, we are there and you'll see more of it coming.

Stephen: I love that.

'cause I don't think that is definitely not featured at all in Canada. Like what are the up and what are the future metallics?

What are the, the future people in the industry, the Anthony's, what are they looking to do or what, what are they interested in? Because you know, with crypto, even if you knew something today, it changes tomorrow. Like you might know Bitcoin. But I think, you know, very few people knew that Bitcoin, ordinals and NFTs on Bitcoin would've appeared a few LA a few years later.

So you always have to kind of keep your pulse on what is someone going to do next.

Now, you slightly mentioned, you never like to promote yourself, but you mentioned Digital ABC, which is something that's probably new to many Canadians and people around the world. What is a Digital ABC? What are you seeing from the behind the scenes?

And what's the intent of this organization?

Florent: Yeah, well, look, full disclosure, first of all, the Digital Asset Business Council, so Digital ABC, is a client of ours on the BlockFlo Digital side. We, uh, shot, you know, videos, and panels, and, you know, Did social media and so forth, and ran interviews at their inaugural event, which was April 8th.

Uh, I, I realize I mispronounced the name of the, or Miss, uh, miss said the name of their event, which is a bit long. So I, it was something like the crypto policy and blockchain form, but there's probably one or two words missing Canadian, I'm sure.

Um, but anyway, I mean, look, the most important part here is that this Digital Asset Business Council is, uh, a new lobby group, um, that is representing digital assets in Canada.

Their membership is largely the miners and all the big names are there. Uh, so you'll see Hive and Hudate and Luxor and, uh, Bitfarms and others. Um, quite an impressive group, by the way, of members for a brand new, uh, industry association. I think there's 12 or 13 of them of those, you know, big players, uh, some of the biggest in the industry.

Um, I also found it interesting when I found out that they were created, that they are very, very closely affiliated with the Canadian Blockchain Consortium, which as I understand is not a lobby, but more of an industry association with almost a hundred members. They're, let's say, well ahead in that sense.

But it's interesting to see that they're collaborating because one could argue that they're also competitors. Uh, but I like the idea of collaboration and especially because one is based in Ottawa, Digital ABC, the other one in Calgary, the CBC. Uh, so, so that was interesting. Um, there is another group called the Web3 Council of Canada.

Based in Vancouver, uh, or actually perhaps incorporated in Ottawa, but the CEO is, uh, is in Vancouver. Uh, we are closely affiliated and, and actually service the Web3 Council as well. Um, and, um, yeah, I mean, look, this is an industry that has a lot of space to grow. Uh, we need all the advocates, we need all the representation, we need all the The, the lobbying to the government we can get, uh, cause it's also like, it's a labor intensive thing, right?

It's, it's often people to people, right? Meetings with MPs or, so, um, so yeah, I mean, look, the first event was very impressive. Uh, I think there were about a hundred people in the room, lots of big names, uh, much like the previous event I talked about with, um, the, uh, the Quebec regulators, you had people from the CRA that were there, Uh, asking a lot of questions on the panels, so that was cool.

Stephen: Too much of Canadian crypto industry has chagrin, I bet.

Florent: Yeah, for sure. Well, and especially now with the, uh, with the capital gain tax hike. But anyway, I mean, it was still nice to see that they were well informed. And, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I know for a fact that they're going to be redoing, they're going to be doing the event again, looking to go bigger.

Uh, I don't exactly know the inner workings of the rest of their work, um, I mean, I see them on social media and, uh, yeah, again, I mean, I think, I think there's room and I just encourage collaboration.

Stephen: Now, Arnaud, you mentioned a couple different lobbying groups, some I'm aware of, uh, are they all different strategies?

Like, is some focused on maybe stablecoins, the other one's more focused on, like, mainly mining regulations? Are they kind of attacking from different vectors? And that's why you see there's a lot of room for collaboration. I'm sure they're not all like fighting for the same one policy. I'm assuming they're attacking for more of like, you know, they have a kind of core fundamental that they're going after.

Florent: 100%. Well, first of all, the mothership here in terms of those advocacy groups is definitely the CBC, which is the other CBC. So the Canadian Blockchain Consortium. I mean, they've been around for, Quite a few years. Shout out to Kolea Carrington, who's the, the, the, the executive director and a real warrior and has, you know, rallied almost a hundred members, including major law firms, including ARK.

I mean, it's very impressive. They do something like 60 events a year. I mean, it's really, really. Uh, impressive. And we're lucky Blockchain North to be, uh, affiliated and partnered with them, uh, on most of their events. So, so they're, they're the big players here. However, as far as I know, and sorry, Kolea, if I misrepresent here, but I, I don't, I'm pretty sure they're not a registered lobby.

And that is an important distinction, which means that they do not technically lobby, but perhaps more advocate through their events, through their socials, through their content. I don't think they're doing like, you know, one on one meetings with MPs as lobbyists. Um, then you've got the Web3 Council, which as you rightfully pointed out, more focused on regulation.

In particular, things like stablecoins, as I know, and I know that's a real, uh, A real thorny one for, for Canada because stablecoins are of course a major on ramp for the crypto industry and, and we need them and right now we may mostly rely on American ones from what I understand. So I think what we need is a, you know, dollar denominated stablecoin and, and legislation that favors that instead of, you know, trying to curtail it.

And this new, uh, this new lobby is, um, is based in Ottawa and, and representing a lot of miners. So that's a whole other side of the business, whereas, uh, CW3, I think, has more exchanges and more, uh, you know, infrastructure developers. Uh, finance type of companies, you know, so, but that's pretty much all I know about them.

So I don't want to go too far.

Stephen: No, that's awesome. I think that's a, it gives a good ladle in. We want to stay high level here, especially if people didn't, even though I was from Canada and the listeners are like, Hey, tell me more about Canada.

One aspect about Canada is like the fact that you live in Quebec versus other parts of Quebec is kind of like its own country.

It's like, I don't know what the US equivalent is. Maybe California or Texas where it's like they follow the majority of the rules, but they have kind of like some things that are very specific to Quebec, including more engaged regulators, which I have to agree with you there. What do your notice that you've been around to all the different provinces?

Uh, describe Quebec compared to like, an Ontario, or an Alberta, or Vancouver, or B. C.

Florent: Yeah, it's interesting that you should say that. Not only have I been there, but I've lived four years in Calgary, a year in Vancouver, uh, and uh, now seven or six years in, in Quebec. Um, first off, I, I like, So, you know, I'm not a Quebecer.

I'm not a, I'm not even Canadian, by the way. I don't have a Canadian passport. I'm still a resident here. Uh, so, which goes against what I said earlier, I'm here to stay, but I just haven't gotten to get my papers in order. I am, I am legal. I'm not a, I'm a legal alien, but, um, yeah, where to begin? Quebec versus the rest of Canada.

I mean, everything you said is true. Quebec has a, a, a special status. It might irk some to hear that, but it's just the way, you know, You know, history happened and the latest constitution, as I understand, was not fully ratified by Quebec. I think it's in the early 80s. So yeah, Quebec has maintained a certain amount of sovereignty.

Uh, as a French, half French, half Dutch, but very much half French, um, uh, person, I, I do, of course, relate to their desire to maintain their culture and especially their language because What's a culture without a language? So I understand that, uh, in a otherwise, you know, on an otherwise Anglophone continent.

So most of it stems from there, by the way. I mean, I look outside and speak to people every day and people here are not that different than they are in Alberta or in Ontario otherwise. Um, In terms of crypto specifically, I don't know if I'd go as far as to say that the regulators are more engaged. I think the most engaged regulator that I know of in Alberta, sorry, in Canada, that was the lapsus, uh, is the Alberta Securities Commission.

Um, again, I'm not an expert, but from the conversations I've had, Especially with Kolea and people in Alberta, and the fact that a lot of crypto companies are moving there. Binance, before it collapsed, you know, had moved to, uh, sorry, I'm confusing it with FTX. Before it left Canada, it had moved to Calgary.

Balance, the custody company, has moved there recently. I think Tetra is there as well. NDAX is there as well. I mean, you know, that's, uh, those are some of the big players already. Um, but what I would say about Quebec is, um, first of all, we're a mining jurisdiction. That's what people can't forget. Uh, and I would venture to guess that perhaps the biggest, or maybe with Alberta.

And why? Well, what do Alberta and Quebec have in common? Uh, of course, Alberta is more natural gas, uh, oil and gas, uh, uh, and I think also quite a bit of renewables actually lately and Quebec is 90 percent hydro, right? So what I do know about Quebec though, is that initially the, the, you know, the national utility Hydro Québec was very, uh, open and having conversations because they also have data centers and.

You know, it aligned pretty well with crypto, and more recently, I think there's been a backlash because people have been concerned, and it's all narrative, right, but about the whole Bitcoin mining, energy usage, and, uh, unfortunately, uh, I think Quebec has kind of pulled back a bit and made the life of, of Quebec, uh, crypto entrepreneurs harder.

So, where will we go from here? Your guess is as good as mine.

Stephen: You've interviewed some of the most prominent people in the industry. Um, from, you know, Alex Tapscott, there's, there's hundreds of people I've seen you interview. Who's been the most interesting to you personally? And what do you think has been the best interview?

The one that you're like, oh, now that I look back at that one, that one was pretty good. Wow, Mo, that's a, that's a big question. It's always tough to put you on the spot and not take favorites, but

Florent: No, no, it's good, it's good. That's the whole point here. I, um It's funny, I was just going to open our YouTube channel just to see them all.

But no, like intuitively some of the ones that stuck with me, um, yeah, I mean, Alex Tapscott is an incredible, I would say an incredible storyteller. You know what I mean? He's written books, he knows, and he doesn't just know the facts. Because as far as I know, he's not a technical guy per se, he's more of an entrepreneur and a financial guy.

However, uh, he has really done the homework and done the research and he's able to break it down and explain it like a, like a very good teacher would. And that's, that is, uh, that is a huge quality that I, Don't particularly have, so I'd love to have it, um, or to work on it. That's one. Uh, another one would be Jimmy Leverton.

Um, it was interesting timing because, uh, uh, Hut8 had just announced, uh, its merger with USBTC. This was, uh, November 30th. Um, so six months ago, uh, and then she left. Uh, so we interviewed her, like. 10 minutes after the announcement was made at the CBC event, um, and we got to interview her right there. So if you haven't seen that interview, go and check it out.

And it's not just the timing, it's also the person. I mean, Jamie Leverton is, uh, is, uh, is another warrior like Kolea. I mean, you know, she has, uh, held leadership positions in, in multiple, I think actually Hudik was the first crypto company, but I think she was in tech and finance before and, uh, And of course, I mean, you know, it's, it's a bit sad to say, but the fact that she's a woman at that level, I think Hot 8's pre merger was already the, the, the biggest crypto company in Canada.

Uh, it was, I think it was valued around a billion. So, you know, that's pretty, uh, that's pretty staggering and kudos to her. And she's super nice as well, and just really approachable and, You know, and, but of course, very intelligent and very savvy, I'm sure. So, uh, that will be a second one. And then the third one that comes to mind, and I feel sorry for all the other people that I don't mention, but probably they don't really care.

Uh, what I say, but, uh, it's Joel Lightbound, you know, who we interviewed at this, uh, DABC forum just a month and a half ago, um, that's a really fresh interview that you could watch because it's, it's, it provides insight into the government's take, the government's. positioning towards blockchain and because they don't communicate.

It's a pretty rare opportunity to, to hear him, you know, tell you what, what Trudeau and what the liberals really think of blockchain and, and what that means for the industry. So those would be three. And, and of course, kudos to him. He's super courageous as well, you know, to be advocating publicly for this industry when his party obviously isn't.

Stephen: So, and I think it's important. This is, I think why Blockchain North is so important is because you give that high quality curated outlet. For people to come on and speak, right? To your point, the YouTubers do a great job. But I think governments are like, Hey, we need something a little bit more polished.

We need someone that has interviewed, you know, high profile. They're not gonna have these sound effects come out after the videos post production. So I think by creating the Blockchain North and having a hub for, you know, high level Canadian conversation, it actually allows for government, and I know CBC has done that as well as Galea MPs out there, it allows for governments to engage with the industry.

In a safe zone versus like speaking to somebody that has a mic and a camera right in their face as they're walking around. So I think that is what I think the biggest importance of having Blockchain North is, is that you need to bridge that gap between the people that are never going to give interviews to the, you know, the grassroots individuals and those that are in the industry are like, Hey, what is the government thinking if I am going to start a business?

Or a Bitcoin mining company in Quebec next year. What can I, what can I actually, what is the real situation versus what I can just Google right now?

Florent: Yeah, hey, I appreciate you for pointing that out. I mean, that's, you know, I never saw Blockchain North as the oracle. I know that's a term in crypto, but basically the, the, you know, the, the answer to every question you have in one place necessarily.

Um, uh, but more of a form, more of a, Of a, yeah, platform so that people can engage, can communicate.

Um, you know, and I'll tell you one of my plans for the coming months and one project that we're trying to get off the ground as well, there, there are several, but here's really another passion project is most of my business life has been outside of crypto.

I'm 46. So let's say it's the last 20 years, more or less. Uh, and I've only been in this space. actively, and again, not seeing myself as an expert yet, but, uh, certainly, uh, been active and learning a lot for about three years. So 20 years, 17 years prior and, and three years in crypto. So most of my contacts, including in Canada, I've been here 12 years, so that's nine years before crypto are outside of the industry.

And so one thing that I think is very, very important in, in the coming years is to bridge the gap between the crypto and the non crypto industry. Now, people often talk about, you know, users of crypto or buyers of tokens. And that's also very important, like the public, but I'm talking about the leaders.

I'm talking about, I'd love to bridge the gap. And the idea we have is to create some kind of an online summit. I'll just break the news here. Hopefully no one steals it and runs with it. Um, but to create some kind of an online summit, keeping it very easy, very accessible, not overly costly for the first one.

Where we bring together crypto leaders. And I mean, some of the, again, more corporate, more established, more reputable ones, um, to match up with leaders from other industries. We mentioned energy, agriculture, health, education, whatever. Um, because I think if we put them on this sort of same level, you know, they'll be able to talk.

A lot of those crypto leaders I'm referring to are, are not native to crypto. They're, they're about my age. Some of them are older, a bit younger. And so they were in finance. They were in tech before. You know, they saw the light and they, and they walked in. But, um, so I, yeah, that's something that I want to do more of as well is, is again, in the, in the spirit of creating this kind of platform, this kind of form is to help connect those two worlds, because I'm sure.

You know, virtually speaking, if you put them around a nice meal, a bit of nice music, a couple of drinks, they'd have a really, really good conversation. So, we probably won't be able to do the food and the drinks if we did it online the first time, but you get the idea, right?

Stephen: And I think there's a huge cross section, like, you know, you mentioned, like, I think many people in crypto are not realizing, like, when you're talking mining, you're talking kilowatts.

Energy, you know, the, the temperature. So you really are diving into a lot of these other industries, data centers that are not specifically crypto, you know, crypto native, but they definitely impact the crypto industry and then probably vice versa for them, those companies, how are they accepting payment?

How are they doing international transfers? Or payments. Exactly. So it's funny how like the crypto world will probably intersect with those worlds and those worlds will intersect with the crypto world. And I would love to see, and trust me, ain't nobody trying to steal. These are hard ideas to execute.

Easy to put on paper, hard to execute as most people will already know. Absolutely. I don't think anyone. Stealing any ideas anytime too soon. Any other future projects? Usually this is how I end the podcast with like, whether it's future projects you're involved in, or just some things that you're seeing out there.

You're like, Oh, you know, someone said A, B and C the other day. I would love to see them kind of put that out into fruition or, you know, this is what the industry could use. This is one thought someone came up to me. I'm like, Oh, this is a project I might not be working on, but I hope somebody else goes and does it.

Florent: Yeah, well, I'll finish with two things. One, Blockchain North related and one more macro. Blockchain North, as I said, we're still, you know, it's still early, as they say in crypto all the time, so we're still small. We're still eager to grow. We, as I said, we will be five. Team members by Monday, that's five full timers.

I work with a bunch of freelancers as well and contractors. Um, but, um, but you know, you'll definitely be seeing more of us. Uh, we want to do more. We want to, as we said earlier, stretch out. I mean, I talk a lot about leaders and the corporate echelon, let's say, of crypto. Uh, I still, you know, it's kind of my personal sweet spot from my experience.

However, um, you will see us in, in more places. Uh, Featuring more, you know, diversity, uh, including foreigners. I think it's important to including some even bigger names. That's one thing that we want to do too. We kind of want to like do the splits, you know, and like go more into the communities, but also try to get a Vitalik, try to get a Michael Saylor, try to get some really big names.

And yeah, you're laughing and I'm laughing too. It's, it's, it's a stretch, but you know, you got to try. So that's one thing. Um, We'll be at Futurist this year again, very excited about that. Um, and yeah, I mean, you know, there's a lot of room for growth. There's a lot of room for improvement. We know it, we're on it, which is why I'm trying to hire and grow, you know, as our budget allows, uh, you know, better videos, more original content.

You know, better social media, more budget as well, more marketing, right? I mean, that's the thing, right? So for reminder, we're self funded. Um, we are always looking for sponsors. So if anybody watches this and I was like, Oh, this is cool. You know, get in touch, blockchainnorth. ca. So that was for the. The quick promo clip.

Um, the other point which I think is, uh, of course much more important than our story is, um, is that, you know, Canada is right now at a, at a juncture in my view. Uh, we have a U. S. making a pivot. I talk a lot about narrative because I'm in the media space. But, um, you know, first we have Trump this week or was it maybe last week, uh, who suddenly is like, you know, the crypto champion and, you know, And, and, and that, of course, suits a Republican, quite libertarian kind of, uh, kind of candidates.

Um, but I mean, you know, the thing is, he says jump over a cliff and people jump over a cliff. So if he tells people crypto is good, imagine how many people are going to just go and set up a wallet and, and buy crypto the next day, right? So, or the same day. So, so that's huge. That's a very big pivot. And then I read.

I think yesterday that Joe Biden is now, you know, his, his campaign, uh, crew are now starting to engage with crypto companies. They want to understand, et cetera. So, I mean, that is massive for the crypto space. Unfortunately, if in Canada, we don't have, you know, even Polyev, who was the biggest Bitcoin advocate and industry, uh, industry supporter, uh, if even he is quiet.

You know, and in the run up to the next, uh, federal election in just over a year, if we don't have, you know, that kind of support, what do you think is going to happen? The talent, the IP, the investment is going to keep flocking to the U. S. or other parts of the world. Uh, the, uh, the capital gains tax didn't help either.

So, yeah, our industry, I think, is, uh, I wouldn't go as far as to say under threat. It'll always exist, but if we want to grab our fair share, given what I said at the beginning about, you know, the fact that we were pioneers, uh, it would just sadden me that again we would be losing, you know, an industry, or at least the bulk of it, to the U.S. I mean, it's a recurring Story for Canada, right? And, uh,

Stephen: Especially cause they're so far behind when it comes to regulation. They're very far behind. A lot of people think that they're leading, they're, they're far ahead when it comes to actual crypto consumption and crypto users, but they're far behind, but to be fair, I don't think Pierre or Justin or anyone's going to be talking about anything.

When I just paid 55 for a tray of organic chicken. I think they have, they have bigger, they have bigger election staples that they could try and get votes with than cryptocurrency, I think, right now. But I do agree with you. We are at a stage where we have an opportunity to take advantage of the interest and more importantly, what you're doing is educating.

And even just from a content, I'm a content creator myself, we do very similar things. I think I focus more on like the compliance side of things. But even as companies try and get in Canada, uh, and I'm not just pitching you, but like, I don't know why they wouldn't want to say it's like, okay, you know, Flo's done all the legwork here, he's met with all the industry professionals, he's gone out there on his own accord, like, It is so much easier from like a business point of view to partner with you and create cool educational content that maybe features obviously their brand and who their company is.

Then I think what a lot of people do is they try to influence from where they are instead of getting the foot on the ground in Canada so that people will actually buy into their story. And I think more and more companies will end up coming to your company because they see how hard it is. To send these PR companies based in Dubai and San Francisco to kind of get that essence into Canada.

Canada is very tricky that way. We're very loving. We're very accepting. We're also not picking up a phone call in the middle of the day either. So they have to kind of balance out that educational awareness with their marketing tactics. And I think Blockchain North and everything that you're doing here to build content is a perfect example of the best way to do it.

And you can see how much you've grown in the last two and a half years. That this is the best way to approach the Canadian market.

Florent: Thank you. I'm, I'm touched, honestly, by, by those words and the way you, you see us and you describe us, I really appreciate it. And I would say, you know, I'm, I'm a very human guy at the end of the day, not too, too calculated or, or too, too, uh, strategic.

And maybe sometimes that's, uh, that's also a weakness, but, but that's who I am. And what I hope people would see, and especially those who are in a capacity to maybe be sponsors or partners or in any kind of way, Collaborate with us is that our intention is real, you know, our drive, our resilience, you know, and, um, and, and we're also, we're candid, you know, we're not perfect.

We don't have it all figured out, but. It's maybe our charm as well. You know,

Stephen: we're And you cover a lot of bases. Not a lot of companies, like, cover. You know, you're in Quebec. You come down to Toronto, Alberta, B. C. Like, not a lot of their media agencies do that, to be quite honest. Not cheap, man. I assure you, it's not cheap.

And that's why, including myself, I'm like, I came out to Alberta once. I love Calais and what they're doing out there. Uh, and it was actually a really good trip. I think there was some kind of thing out there where it was like 40 degrees in the middle of October, which is awesome. Flo, so much.

Florent: At least one thing I have to give kudos to, sorry to interrupt you, but it is to those organizations like Futurist, like the CBC.

Um, that, that have their doors wide open for us because I suppose they see the value in what we do, but nevertheless, I do want to thank them because they provide us a, we're, we're complimentary, right? I mean, we, Blockchain North, are digital, we're online, we're social media, um, whereas they, of course, do that too, but they are much more about real life events, so I think there's a perfect match there.

And, uh, kudos to you as well for what you're doing. I look up to your content and, and, uh, And you're such a positive guy too. I mean, I gotta, I gotta say this because it's so special. You know, when you send those little LinkedIn messages any day of the week, sometimes like Saturday morning, I'm like, who's writing me?

And it's you and you're not writing. You're sending me a voice recording to just say, Hey, love that video or keep going, you know, keep going, you're doing amazing work. I mean, that is. You know, we need to do more of that for each other as a, as an industry and as a country. So, you know, thank you very much for having me.

Stephen: No problem. Content is hard and I realized that, man. And when I see growth, like what you, I remember, I'll still remember that day. I'm like, you know, who's this other guy doing videos in this conference?

And I'm like, hold on. And then the next year you're at Futures with a massive booth. I'm like, God, I think I did something wrong. I love what you guys are doing. Uh, what were you called back then? You had a different name. It was the Canadian something.

Florent: Crypto News Canada.

Stephen: Yeah. I liked the blockchain north, the colors, the logos. Uh, all that is really great. Flo, thank you so much for joining us today in our first, I think, Canadian focused edition of our Around The Coin podcast, and we'll make sure everyone has your socials, and I'm sure a whole bunch of people will get in contact with you as they're looking to bridge into Canada.

Florent: Much appreciated, man. Thank you.

Stephen: Awesome.